standalone question

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standalone question

brianlheim
(cross-post with sc-users)

Hi all,

I am working with some older code in the SuperCollider backend for the upcoming 3.9 release, and keep running across double references to "standalone" apps. As I understand it, there are two different concepts in play:

1. a runtime option, -a, that you can pass to sclang in order to make it ignore the default class library compilation directories
2. a build option, something like "cmake -D standalone:string=MyFabApp", which, on macOS, causes SuperCollider to be built as an .app bundle with a user-supplied name. Things built this way also behave similarly to if you passed the -a option at runtime, but there may be other nuances.

I am mainly wondering if anyone uses (2) or if it still even works, because it potentially mean a big cleanup if we could safely drop that code. I am relatively new to the project, and I'm aware that development around that has changed significantly with the last few releases, but I can't find any definitive answer in the documentation or in previous discussions.

Thanks in advance,

--
-brian

_______________________________
Brian Heim | computer musician & programmer
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Re: standalone question

miguel.negrao-lists
Hi Brian,

Number 2 will also build using cocoa instead of Qt, right ? If that is
the case I have doubts that the cocoa code is still up to date, it would
be good if someone could confiirm. I know that at least WFSCollider
standalone is still based on that code, but it is still using sc3.5 so
it is not relevant for the discussion.

After 3.7 was released I know that adc made a script to make OSX style
"standalones" starting a from a normal osx app:

https://www.listarc.bham.ac.uk/lists/sc-users/msg54374.html

I agree it would be nice if it could be established if that code is
still working and also if it is still needed. In fact, is the whole of
the old cocoa code being maintained ? Does it still build ?

  It should be noted that adc's standalones are not the same as the
original osx standalones, because the original standalones could really
look like a normal osx app, with a custom menu, and not like an ide. In
order to be able to do that with the Qt gui we would need a way to
create a main menu from within sclang, so that the standalone would be
just sclang + scsynth, and when starting sclang one would create the
menu from supercollider code. We should see if there are people
interested in developing that. This would work well with my
projects/sclang standalone feature which deals with include paths and
quarks.

Best,
Miguel

On 14-05-2017 15:44, [hidden email] wrote:

> (cross-post with sc-users)
>
> Hi all,
>
> I am working with some older code in the SuperCollider backend for the
> upcoming 3.9 release, and keep running across double references to
> "standalone" apps. As I understand it, there are two different concepts
> in play:
>
> 1. a runtime option, -a, that you can pass to sclang in order to make it
> ignore the default class library compilation directories
> 2. a build option, something like "cmake -D standalone:string=MyFabApp",
> which, on macOS, causes SuperCollider to be built as an .app bundle with
> a user-supplied name. Things built this way also behave similarly to if
> you passed the -a option at runtime, but there may be other nuances.
>
> I am mainly wondering if anyone uses (2) or if it still even works,
> because it potentially mean a big cleanup if we could safely drop that
> code. I am relatively new to the project, and I'm aware that development
> around that has changed significantly with the last few releases, but I
> can't find any definitive answer in the documentation or in previous
> discussions.
>
> Thanks in advance,
>
> --
> -brian
>
> _______________________________
> Brian Heim | computer musician & programmer
> www.brianlheim.com <http://www.brianlheim.com>


--
Miguel Negrão
http://www.friendlyvirus.org/miguelnegrao

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Re: standalone question

alberto.decampo
Hi Brian & Miguel,

> On 14/05/2017, at 18:46 , [hidden email] wrote:
>
> Hi Brian,
>
> Number 2 will also build using cocoa instead of Qt, right ? If that is the case I have doubts that the cocoa code is still up to date, it would be good if someone could confiirm. I know that at least WFSCollider standalone is still based on that code, but it is still using sc3.5 so it is not relevant for the discussion.

> After 3.7 was released I know that adc made a script to make OSX style "standalones" starting a from a normal osx app:
>
> https://www.listarc.bham.ac.uk/lists/sc-users/msg54374.html

Used it a quite recently, the script still works, with one little hitch:
Sometimes the renamed app (say MyApp.app) correctly creates its own userAppSupportDir
as Library/Application Support/MyApp, sometimes it still uses Library/Application Support/SuperCollider.
I don’t have a reproducer for when it does which of these ...

> I agree it would be nice if it could be established if that code is still working and also if it is still needed. In fact, is the whole of the old cocoa code being maintained ? Does it still build ?

I would doubt that it still works, and it may not be worth the effort to revive it.
Unless fans of it speak up now, we can probably consider it obsolete ;-)

> It should be noted that adc's standalones are not the same as the original osx standalones, because the original standalones could really look like a normal osx app, with a custom menu, and not like an ide. In order to be able to do that with the Qt gui we would need a way to create a main menu from within sclang, so that the standalone would be just sclang + scsynth, and when starting sclang one would create the menu from supercollider code. We should see if there are people interested in developing that. This would work well with my projects/sclang standalone feature which deals with include paths and quarks.

That would be really nice to have!
Even a single user-modifiable Menu would be a good step in that direction,
removing unneeded IDE Menus and items could be happen step.

best adc



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sc-dev mailing list

info (subscription, etc.): http://www.birmingham.ac.uk/facilities/ea-studios/research/supercollider/mailinglist.aspx
archive: http://www.listarc.bham.ac.uk/marchives/sc-dev/
search: http://www.listarc.bham.ac.uk/lists/sc-dev/search/
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Re: standalone question

brianlheim
As far as I know, only Qt gui code is being actively maintained, and we have been planning to remove mentions of the other GUI systems.

Sounds to me like this code is definitely obsolete, since multiple devs have no clue whether it builds anymore and nobody has mentioned it on the mailing list as long as I've been subscribed. Also sounds like better work could be done along those lines in a different direction. Would anyone have strong objections to me removing it? Sorry if that sounds impatient, but it very much simplifies the logic of the code I'm massaging for this PR.

-Brian

On Sun, May 14, 2017 at 3:05 PM, <[hidden email]> wrote:
Hi Brian & Miguel,

> On 14/05/2017, at 18:46 , [hidden email] wrote:
>
> Hi Brian,
>
> Number 2 will also build using cocoa instead of Qt, right ? If that is the case I have doubts that the cocoa code is still up to date, it would be good if someone could confiirm. I know that at least WFSCollider standalone is still based on that code, but it is still using sc3.5 so it is not relevant for the discussion.

> After 3.7 was released I know that adc made a script to make OSX style "standalones" starting a from a normal osx app:
>
> https://www.listarc.bham.ac.uk/lists/sc-users/msg54374.html

Used it a quite recently, the script still works, with one little hitch:
Sometimes the renamed app (say MyApp.app) correctly creates its own userAppSupportDir
as Library/Application Support/MyApp, sometimes it still uses Library/Application Support/SuperCollider.
I don’t have a reproducer for when it does which of these ...

> I agree it would be nice if it could be established if that code is still working and also if it is still needed. In fact, is the whole of the old cocoa code being maintained ? Does it still build ?

I would doubt that it still works, and it may not be worth the effort to revive it.
Unless fans of it speak up now, we can probably consider it obsolete ;-)

> It should be noted that adc's standalones are not the same as the original osx standalones, because the original standalones could really look like a normal osx app, with a custom menu, and not like an ide. In order to be able to do that with the Qt gui we would need a way to create a main menu from within sclang, so that the standalone would be just sclang + scsynth, and when starting sclang one would create the menu from supercollider code. We should see if there are people interested in developing that. This would work well with my projects/sclang standalone feature which deals with include paths and quarks.

That would be really nice to have!
Even a single user-modifiable Menu would be a good step in that direction,
removing unneeded IDE Menus and items could be happen step.

best adc



--
-brian

_______________________________
Brian Heim | computer musician & programmer
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Re: standalone question

Neil Cosgrove

Hi Brian. 


I've been following how the Standalone works over the various versions of SC.


3.6 was the last time building a standalone was possible. I still have both Cocoa & Qt flavours.


3.7>= only ADC's script works.


Also Scott Carver already has a working  Menu system, I thought I saw this as part of SC3.9 or am I wrong...? 


Neil




From: [hidden email] <[hidden email]> on behalf of [hidden email] <[hidden email]>
Sent: 14 May 2017 22:12
To: [hidden email]
Subject: Re: [sc-dev] standalone question
 
As far as I know, only Qt gui code is being actively maintained, and we have been planning to remove mentions of the other GUI systems.

Sounds to me like this code is definitely obsolete, since multiple devs have no clue whether it builds anymore and nobody has mentioned it on the mailing list as long as I've been subscribed. Also sounds like better work could be done along those lines in a different direction. Would anyone have strong objections to me removing it? Sorry if that sounds impatient, but it very much simplifies the logic of the code I'm massaging for this PR.

-Brian

On Sun, May 14, 2017 at 3:05 PM, <[hidden email]> wrote:
Hi Brian & Miguel,

> On 14/05/2017, at 18:46 , [hidden email] wrote:
>
> Hi Brian,
>
> Number 2 will also build using cocoa instead of Qt, right ? If that is the case I have doubts that the cocoa code is still up to date, it would be good if someone could confiirm. I know that at least WFSCollider standalone is still based on that code, but it is still using sc3.5 so it is not relevant for the discussion.

> After 3.7 was released I know that adc made a script to make OSX style "standalones" starting a from a normal osx app:
>
> https://www.listarc.bham.ac.uk/lists/sc-users/msg54374.html

Used it a quite recently, the script still works, with one little hitch:
Sometimes the renamed app (say MyApp.app) correctly creates its own userAppSupportDir
as Library/Application Support/MyApp, sometimes it still uses Library/Application Support/SuperCollider.
I don’t have a reproducer for when it does which of these ...

> I agree it would be nice if it could be established if that code is still working and also if it is still needed. In fact, is the whole of the old cocoa code being maintained ? Does it still build ?

I would doubt that it still works, and it may not be worth the effort to revive it.
Unless fans of it speak up now, we can probably consider it obsolete ;-)

> It should be noted that adc's standalones are not the same as the original osx standalones, because the original standalones could really look like a normal osx app, with a custom menu, and not like an ide. In order to be able to do that with the Qt gui we would need a way to create a main menu from within sclang, so that the standalone would be just sclang + scsynth, and when starting sclang one would create the menu from supercollider code. We should see if there are people interested in developing that. This would work well with my projects/sclang standalone feature which deals with include paths and quarks.

That would be really nice to have!
Even a single user-modifiable Menu would be a good step in that direction,
removing unneeded IDE Menus and items could be happen step.

best adc



--
-brian

_______________________________
Brian Heim | computer musician & programmer
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Re: standalone question

brianlheim
Neil,

Thanks for the response! That is very helpful info.

Scott's got a PR here: https://github.com/supercollider/supercollider/pull/2504

I think that's what you're talking about?

-Brian

On Mon, May 15, 2017 at 12:32 PM, <[hidden email]> wrote:

Hi Brian. 


I've been following how the Standalone works over the various versions of SC.


3.6 was the last time building a standalone was possible. I still have both Cocoa & Qt flavours.


3.7>= only ADC's script works.


Also Scott Carver already has a working  Menu system, I thought I saw this as part of SC3.9 or am I wrong...? 


Neil




From: [hidden email] <[hidden email]> on behalf of [hidden email] <[hidden email]>
Sent: 14 May 2017 22:12
To: [hidden email]
Subject: Re: [sc-dev] standalone question
 
As far as I know, only Qt gui code is being actively maintained, and we have been planning to remove mentions of the other GUI systems.

Sounds to me like this code is definitely obsolete, since multiple devs have no clue whether it builds anymore and nobody has mentioned it on the mailing list as long as I've been subscribed. Also sounds like better work could be done along those lines in a different direction. Would anyone have strong objections to me removing it? Sorry if that sounds impatient, but it very much simplifies the logic of the code I'm massaging for this PR.

-Brian

On Sun, May 14, 2017 at 3:05 PM, <[hidden email]> wrote:
Hi Brian & Miguel,

> On 14/05/2017, at 18:46 , [hidden email] wrote:
>
> Hi Brian,
>
> Number 2 will also build using cocoa instead of Qt, right ? If that is the case I have doubts that the cocoa code is still up to date, it would be good if someone could confiirm. I know that at least WFSCollider standalone is still based on that code, but it is still using sc3.5 so it is not relevant for the discussion.

> After 3.7 was released I know that adc made a script to make OSX style "standalones" starting a from a normal osx app:
>
> https://www.listarc.bham.ac.uk/lists/sc-users/msg54374.html

Used it a quite recently, the script still works, with one little hitch:
Sometimes the renamed app (say MyApp.app) correctly creates its own userAppSupportDir
as Library/Application Support/MyApp, sometimes it still uses Library/Application Support/SuperCollider.
I don’t have a reproducer for when it does which of these ...

> I agree it would be nice if it could be established if that code is still working and also if it is still needed. In fact, is the whole of the old cocoa code being maintained ? Does it still build ?

I would doubt that it still works, and it may not be worth the effort to revive it.
Unless fans of it speak up now, we can probably consider it obsolete ;-)

> It should be noted that adc's standalones are not the same as the original osx standalones, because the original standalones could really look like a normal osx app, with a custom menu, and not like an ide. In order to be able to do that with the Qt gui we would need a way to create a main menu from within sclang, so that the standalone would be just sclang + scsynth, and when starting sclang one would create the menu from supercollider code. We should see if there are people interested in developing that. This would work well with my projects/sclang standalone feature which deals with include paths and quarks.

That would be really nice to have!
Even a single user-modifiable Menu would be a good step in that direction,
removing unneeded IDE Menus and items could be happen step.

best adc



--
-brian

_______________________________
Brian Heim | computer musician & programmer



--
-brian

_______________________________
Brian Heim | computer musician & programmer
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Re: standalone question

Neil Cosgrove

Yes thats it. I've been using them for some time. They work great.


From: [hidden email] <[hidden email]> on behalf of [hidden email] <[hidden email]>
Sent: 16 May 2017 17:14
To: [hidden email]
Subject: Re: [sc-dev] standalone question
 
Neil,

Thanks for the response! That is very helpful info.

Scott's got a PR here: https://github.com/supercollider/supercollider/pull/2504


I think that's what you're talking about?

-Brian

On Mon, May 15, 2017 at 12:32 PM, <[hidden email]> wrote:

Hi Brian. 


I've been following how the Standalone works over the various versions of SC.


3.6 was the last time building a standalone was possible. I still have both Cocoa & Qt flavours.


3.7>= only ADC's script works.


Also Scott Carver already has a working  Menu system, I thought I saw this as part of SC3.9 or am I wrong...? 


Neil




From: [hidden email] <[hidden email]> on behalf of [hidden email] <[hidden email]>
Sent: 14 May 2017 22:12
To: [hidden email]
Subject: Re: [sc-dev] standalone question
 
As far as I know, only Qt gui code is being actively maintained, and we have been planning to remove mentions of the other GUI systems.

Sounds to me like this code is definitely obsolete, since multiple devs have no clue whether it builds anymore and nobody has mentioned it on the mailing list as long as I've been subscribed. Also sounds like better work could be done along those lines in a different direction. Would anyone have strong objections to me removing it? Sorry if that sounds impatient, but it very much simplifies the logic of the code I'm massaging for this PR.

-Brian

On Sun, May 14, 2017 at 3:05 PM, <[hidden email]> wrote:
Hi Brian & Miguel,

> On 14/05/2017, at 18:46 , [hidden email] wrote:
>
> Hi Brian,
>
> Number 2 will also build using cocoa instead of Qt, right ? If that is the case I have doubts that the cocoa code is still up to date, it would be good if someone could confiirm. I know that at least WFSCollider standalone is still based on that code, but it is still using sc3.5 so it is not relevant for the discussion.

> After 3.7 was released I know that adc made a script to make OSX style "standalones" starting a from a normal osx app:
>
> https://www.listarc.bham.ac.uk/lists/sc-users/msg54374.html

Used it a quite recently, the script still works, with one little hitch:
Sometimes the renamed app (say MyApp.app) correctly creates its own userAppSupportDir
as Library/Application Support/MyApp, sometimes it still uses Library/Application Support/SuperCollider.
I don’t have a reproducer for when it does which of these ...

> I agree it would be nice if it could be established if that code is still working and also if it is still needed. In fact, is the whole of the old cocoa code being maintained ? Does it still build ?

I would doubt that it still works, and it may not be worth the effort to revive it.
Unless fans of it speak up now, we can probably consider it obsolete ;-)

> It should be noted that adc's standalones are not the same as the original osx standalones, because the original standalones could really look like a normal osx app, with a custom menu, and not like an ide. In order to be able to do that with the Qt gui we would need a way to create a main menu from within sclang, so that the standalone would be just sclang + scsynth, and when starting sclang one would create the menu from supercollider code. We should see if there are people interested in developing that. This would work well with my projects/sclang standalone feature which deals with include paths and quarks.

That would be really nice to have!
Even a single user-modifiable Menu would be a good step in that direction,
removing unneeded IDE Menus and items could be happen step.

best adc



--
-brian

_______________________________
Brian Heim | computer musician & programmer



--
-brian

_______________________________
Brian Heim | computer musician & programmer